Switch rods; fly line choice

[T7]

A very relevant point indeed. I think you will agree that if you find a rod and line that work together and work for you and your river then stick with it. The difficulty is of course is that if you make a good choice at the outset then you are set up for ever. If you are unlucky enough to find something that doesn't quite work as well as it should then you will very quickly be turned off switch rods. A lot of the manufacturers provide advice that is sometime ambiguous at best and it can be an absolute minefield when trying to pair stuff up effectively. There appears to be some degree of confusion about the origins of switch rods. I have seen protracted debates rage on and on and on about how and why they were developed. Yes there is a strong train of thought that suggests that the rods offers or should offer the versatility to switch between overhead and water anchored casts. The other suggestion is the fact that the Yanks tend to call the Forward Spey or Jump roll the Switch Cast and that the rod was developed for Spey casting only. This appears to be where a lot of well intentioned individuals with strong opinions get quite excited. I personally feel that neither argument is particularly right or wrong. The original purpose of the development of the switch rod seems lost on most of us. I suppose, as with all things fishing related there are no absolutes. If you can make stuff work for you and work with minimum effort then your fishing is totally enhanced and the rod and line are working and you are not busting your balls to get a fly into a pool

Agreed. Especially about the ambiguity of the term switch with regards to switch casting. Although a switch cast as I understand it is a spey cast with no change of direction. I'm not sure anyone could argue a switch rod was specifically designed for spey casting without a directional change!!!

Anyway point taken and you're right the switch debate has been done to death on most forums!

[mintylad]

Without wanting to sound like a complete idiot I am over loaded with info on the whole switch rod thing. Could someone please outline the reason why you would use a switch rod. The reason I am asking is that my fourteen year old daughter will be fishing on the Towy this year and I was thinking of buying a switch rod for her to use. Would this be a good idea or should she be using a straight double hander. I will have to buy myself a dh as I fished all last season with a sh and found it quite tiring. Is it advisable to use a switch rod at night or is it best to stick to the sh. Fairly new to fly fishing on the river so just want some basic advise so as to not spend on wrong kit. My budget for two rods / reels line will be about £800/£1000. I am sure that there's others reading that could do with some easily digested info.

Many thanks in advance

Mintylad.

Ps looking forward to seeing the results of the fly swap.

[aaron]

Is it advisable to use a switch rod at night or is it best to stick to the sh.

I use an 11' switch rod both day and night on the Teifi, as i like to cast double handed all the time. This is just my preference.
The line i use is a Snowbee switch 6/7 350g or an Airflo 40+ (As TT suggests, a great short spey line)
For me, a switch is used just as a short double hander, and on the middle Teifi in high summer, even 12' can be too much rod in some places unless it's in flood.
There are many on here who know the Towy better than me, so.... over to you guys!

[laffingravy]

In answer to your question please believe me you do not sound like a complete idiot. The only people I know who sound like idiots are those who have questions about things they don't fully understand but don't ask them because they are frightened of sounding like idiots. As to why anyone would use a switch rod, it is a generalisation only but a switch rod will make waterborne anchor casts far more readily than a single handed rod. To achieve this with maximum efficiency however it must be paired up with a line that matches it. As regards your 14 year old daughter again this is only a generalisation but I suggest that she will find it less tiring casting using 2 hands rather than using one. Please bear in mind that switch rods have some limitations regarding fishing big heavy flies and heavy sinking lines on swollen fast flowing water but once again this is only a generalisation. As regards whether to use a switch rod at night, it really depends on the environment you are fishing in. I personally use a Zpey 18g switch rod when fishing for sea trout at night because a lot of the pools I fish have access restricted by trees and bushes behind me. This really is where switch rods come into their own. Overhead casts where practical will always provide more casting efficiency and distance than any type of Spey but practical access on rivers is usually very rare, certainly where I fish it is. Single handed Spey casting works and works very well but it can prove difficult to master particularly if your 14 year old is relatively new to fly fishing. It is in my own opinion more difficult to achieve that double handed Spey casting.With £800.000 to spend you should comfortably pick a switch rod and a double hander up and lines to suit. I don't wish to force casting tuition upon you and if you lived a bit nearer to St. Helens I would meet you for an hour and run through stuff for free. If you are going to BFFI this weekend if you come to the AAPGAI stand and introduce yourself I will run through stuff there for you. This will cost you nothing. Failing this there is a chap in your area, that is if you are near the Towy by the name of Alun Rees, he is a member of GAIA which is a different organisation to my own. For about £30.00 if you spend an hour with him on the Towy or the Taff, I am sure he will take you and your daughter through the whole routine and having spent time with you both will advise you face to face regarding what might best suit you. His no is 07792 393943 please tell him Geoff Littler sent you. If you do come along to BFFI at the weekend it will be great to meet you.
If you are not able to do any of this please do not go out and just buy rods and lines at random come back on here and I will try to offer you further advice albeit from a distance

[dalesman]

So we now have a range of rods called switch......So if a cast my mind back a few years we were able to get 9' through to 11'plus rods where you could push or screw extension handles up to 4'' in.

And if my memory is right the longer rods were marketed as seatrout/grilse rods with the removable extension.

I know a chap you uses a old hardy 9'3'' 2piece 8# carbon rod for all his still water fishing as he likes the extension handle running down his forearm fighting doubles. And because it a old British Hardy he has been able to get a number of sections straight hardy stock.

[steelheadnut]

Without wanting to sound like a complete idiot I am over loaded with info on the whole switch rod thing. Could someone please outline the reason why you would use a switch rod. The reason I am asking is that my fourteen year old daughter will be fishing on the Towy this year and I was thinking of buying a switch rod for her to use. Would this be a good idea or should she be using a straight double hander. I will have to buy myself a dh as I fished all last season with a sh and found it quite tiring. Is it advisable to use a switch rod at night or is it best to stick to the sh. Fairly new to fly fishing on the river so just want some basic advise so as to not spend on wrong kit. My budget for two rods / reels line will be about £800/£1000. I am sure that there's others reading that could do with some easily digested info.

Many thanks in advance

Mintylad.

Ps looking forward to seeing the results of the fly swap.

Mintylad,
Before you spend your hard earned cash I would echo laffingravy's comments about contacting a casting instructor. It could save you many pounds in the long run and he could suggest what type of casting stick your daughter would feel comfortable with.
As for myself, well I'm what many call a lazy caster, so I tend to over grain my rod to throw a reasonable line if they are a bit tipy, I do prefer a middle to full actioned rod, but not quite a full through actioned rod if that makes sense to you.
This is where the instructor will help immensely and save you your money by studying the casting stroke and can recommend what type of action is suited and hopefully point you towards specific rods.
The switch I use is a 10ft 6" Meiser rod rated 500/700gn and the line I like on it is a scandi,
head weight 499gn with 10 & 5ft poly tips. The combination comes in at about 570gn.
This setup is perfect for me on the Teify in everything but a bank high flood, especially from Maesycruguau up. More often than not this is my go to D/H for most occasions on the Teify.
The 13footer does come out occasionally and a lot less than it used to.

Cap

[mintylad]

Thanks gents for the advice. Will most definitely be seeking the tuition of a professional as I want fishing for my daughter to be a pleasure. If I take her to the river and she gets fed up cos she can't do it properly then she probably wouldn't want to keep coming for long and we need to see more kids fishing. She caught her first trout last season and was uncontrollable with joy so hopefully she can tempt something larger and silvery this year.

Thanks again

Richy

[T7]

Don't we all mate! Good luck...

[Teifi-Terrorist]

Just a quick follow-up on my initial post. I used the Scandi head on a #7 switch rod extensively on my recent trip to the Rio Grande it was perfectly fine for overhead casting, not making the rod feel overloaded at all. As such, if you're looking for something of a 'best of both worlds' then the Scandi head will fulfil that nicely. You could overhead the Rage, but it was quite clunky and did make the rod feel a little over pressed.

TT.

[mintylad]

I was discussing my tackle requirements with a man in a tackle shop last night and was informed that a rio skagit system would make for a easy casting option for a new comer to double handed fishing. Do any of you feel that this was accurate info . It will be matched withan airflo rod.

Cheers Richy

[T7]

I would disagree to be honest, Skagit casting is mainly for water-borne anchor casts (e.g. C-spey/snap T etc) and are used for very fast sinking tips and huge, heavy flies. This style can be difficult to master for the beginner. Personally I'd start with a Rio AFS shooting head (or something similar), which is an easy loading head, and just stick to single spey casting to start with, then move to the more fancy casts, which are useful for fast sinking tips and big heavy tube flies. (Alternatively you could go for a short head Spey line as these are basically just integrated shooting heads these days).

The good thing about a shooting head set up is that you just buy one reel and put running line on it, then change the head according to the conditions/rod/sink rate etc. Therefore if you want to try a skagit in the future then all you do is swap the Rio AFS (or whatever you choose) for a Skagit, which is basically a short, thick shooting head. Multiple set ups, only 1 reel/spool.

PM me if you want any more explanation - it can be a bit overwhelming for a beginner to double handers!

[mintylad]

Thanks for the advice. You have confirmed what I was thinking about the type of line setup I should go for. Tried out my daughters new switch rod tonight and to my dismay heard a lovely crack on the back cast whist seeing how it would work single handed. The female part of the second section has cracked as if it has been compressed
Quite disappointed really I wasn't giving it any welly at all and I had taped all sections together so just hope it is covered by the warranty.

Mintylad

[T7]

Depends what type of river you are fishing but I would only use a switch on a small river or in low water on medium rivers. Anything else 12-15 foot double hander is best!

[mintylad]

Intended the switch rod to be used by my daughter but upon reflection she might be better off with a light dh. She will be attending casting lessons courtesy of caaa at the end of next month so hopefully will have a better idea of what will suit her after that. Picking up new dh on Tuesday. Greys xf2 14ft rio shooting head line and greys 9000 reel hopefully that will do the job nicely and not break the first time I use it!