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  • Switch rods; fly line choice

    Switch rods have become immensely popular over the last 2-3 seasons and with good reason. However, with their popularity the market has also become rather saturated with lines that may suit them - as always, the best advice is to try before you buy. The grain system may be slightly alien to some and since I have just picked up a #7 outfit I thought I'd give some insight into lines that airflo have produced to compliment such an outfit along with which one may suit you best.

    Now, as with the majority of switch rod owners, I do not use mine for overheads - I see them as being mini double handers. As such, this advice is for waterborn casts rather than overheads etc. where such lines would invariably be too heavy. Please note that I am no great caster or professional instructor, so please accept my terminology as an angler not casting geek

    So, for a #7-8 outfit, I would choose one of the following (you could go up one grain category/class for a straight #8 outfit):

    Airflo Spey Skagit Switch, 480 grains: probably the most compact version you will find at 20ft long. Great for tight casting situations and turning over heavy flies and heavy leaders. However, presentation can suffer, so best kept for high water. Very easy to load and takes very little effort - actually, the more effort you use, the less performance you usually get with these.

    Airflo Rage Compact, 450 grain: This is a very middle of the road line and if you're only going to get one then get this one. At 29ft it is almost a third longer than the skagit. It tapers off nicely and does give a better presentation. However, it still has plenty of lifting power for heavier tips and larger flies.

    Airflo Scandi compact, 480 grain: At 34ft it's the longest of the three and less favourable for turning over larger flies and heavy tips. It will do, but usually with a lot more effort than the above. Great for lower water and more spooky fish. Tapers off significantly towards the end, which reduces the lifting power on heavy tips etc. but very much a case of horses for courses.

    With a running line loaded onto your favourite reel the benefit of the above is that you can chop and change as needed and as the conditions dictate. Very versatile and certainly the way forward in my eyes.

    Anyway, hope you find this of use.

    TT.

    p.s. Yes, they're all airflo and that's virtually all I use nowadays. In addition, if you travel to e.g. British Columbia you will find that Airflo is the line of choice with the steelhead guys, for good reason. They have my vote of confidence every time.

  • #2
    A nice piece of IMFO TT|\
    Thanks for taking the time to post this thread.
    I keep thinking of getting a switch rod myself, I'm just waiting to find one going at the right price:>

    Comment


    • #3
      My pleasure LFM. Hope it helps.

      As for switch rods; really depends on budget. Airflo have a nice entry level one, but if you have a bit more cash to splash then the Scott Mackenzie one is fantastic.

      http://www.mackenzieflyfishing.com/s...ds/switch-rods

      I have this one and it's superb - not sure what stock levels are though, as it was very limited release:

      http://www.nomaduk.net/products_flyf...ds_11ft378.php

      TT.

      Comment


      • #4
        Interesting stuff TT, I have the Airflo skagit for my 14 footer and it's a belter.

        One thing I would say though is why buy a switch rod in heavy ratings (e.g. 7 or 8 spey rating)? As you say, these are very difficult to overhead cast well as the lines are so heavy - really you are just using it as a small double hander (again as you said). I have a 12 foot double handed rod rated 7/8 that is perfect for this type of fishing and is really light and easy to use (all the lines you mention would be perfect on it by the way)

        I also have a 11 foot, #6 (spey rated) switch rod with an Orvis switch line and that actually is IMHO a proper switch rod - you can single hand cast it with no trouble and it spey casts well also.

        A 6 weight (double hand rating) works out to be a 9/10 weight roughly on the single hand scale and I think that is about the limit of what can be single hand cast easily for any length of time and to me that is where switch rods end and light double handers begin.

        Just my opinion! Cheers |\

        Comment


        • #5
          Hey T7,

          All good and thanks for the feedback.

          To be honest I don't see 7/8 being heavy? If you were to use it for overhead then you could use a standard e.g. Cortland 444 wf8 with it perfectly. As such, it certainly would not be #9/10 or #10/11 double hander rating? Just very much horses for courses on line choice and how you see yourself utilising it.

          These are very much proper switch rods, but it's very difficult to find a line that will allow you to 'switch' properly without under or overloading. Again, I don't tend to overhead much anyway, hence why I opt for the above lines, which are great for waterborn casts.

          TT

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Teifi-Terrorist View Post
            Hey T7,

            All good and thanks for the feedback.

            To be honest I don't see 7/8 being heavy? If you were to use it for overhead then you could use a standard e.g. Cortland 444 wf8 with it perfectly. As such, it certainly would not be #9/10 or #10/11 double hander rating? Just very much horses for courses on line choice and how you see yourself utilising it.

            These are very much proper switch rods, but it's very difficult to find a line that will allow you to 'switch' properly without under or overloading. Again, I don't tend to overhead much anyway, hence why I opt for the above lines, which are great for waterborn casts.

            TT
            Cheers for the reply TT.

            Isn't that part of the confusion? Some are rated for Spey lines and others for single handers? For example my switch rod will cast a normal 8/9 trout line no problem, but for Spey casting I use a 6 weight line (Spey ratings).

            Apparently there is a difference of about 3 line weights between a single hand rated line and double? Seems about right based on my experience. All very confusing and unnecessary if they had a single rating system! Probably easier to stick to grains/grams I guess.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by T7 View Post
              Cheers for the reply TT.

              Isn't that part of the confusion? Some are rated for Spey lines and others for single handers? For example my switch rod will cast a normal 8/9 trout line no problem, but for Spey casting I use a 6 weight line (Spey ratings).

              Apparently there is a difference of about 3 line weights between a single hand rated line and double? Seems about right based on my experience. All very confusing and unnecessary if they had a single rating system! Probably easier to stick to grains/grams I guess.
              Wasn't even aware of that to be honest mate so good to know - age old advice of try before you buy very much a go-to in this case then.

              Yes, easier to stick to grains/grams for sure - hence I guess the advice above based on grains for a #7/8 outfit. Having said that, I definitely wouldn't like to overhead one though, as it would definitely feel overloaded.

              Thanks for the insight T7 |\

              TT

              Comment


              • #8
                No problem! I had the same confusion a couple of years ago and took a while for the penny to drop! Some switch rods are rated for Spey lines (the majority I think) so an 8 weight for example wouldn't load at all with a standard 8 weight line, you'd need about an 11 weight and trying to overhead cast that wouldn't be much fun at all!!! I don't know how that could ever be a true switch rod and is really a light double hander.

                Anyway they are fun to cast on small to medium rivers whatever you call them!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by T7 View Post
                  No problem! I had the same confusion a couple of years ago and took a while for the penny to drop! Some switch rods are rated for Spey lines (the majority I think) so an 8 weight for example wouldn't load at all with a standard 8 weight line, you'd need about an 11 weight and trying to overhead cast that wouldn't be much fun at all!!! I don't know how that could ever be a true switch rod and is really a light double hander.

                  Anyway they are fun to cast on small to medium rivers whatever you call them!
                  But assume then T7 that the #8 that would not load at all would load ok with an overhead? Or not? With mine it's very much a case of a standard #8 line will overhead fine, but too light for spey with little lifting power. However, the spey equivalent loads fine for waterborn but too heavy for overhead. As such, as I said originally; you have to decide how you're going to use it and then buy the line accordingly. Does that make sense? I do agree; not really switch then at all.

                  TT.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    'Switch' rod helps muppets

                    I can echo the comments about making life simpler for 'not great' casters. I am in that class as TT can affirm. Being of northern heritage I decided on the inexpensive options using gear I already had for my overhead casting where I used a W8F line and inter/sink tips. This adaption enabled me to escape from being unable to time a spey cast with a double hander, particularly when it really mattered and there was no back space for casting. It is a not too expensive option to enjoying fishing with bigger flies and no back cast.

                    My kit: 11ft #7 with fighting butt Silver Creek that cost me £25 at a game fair 5 years ago. Airflo #7/8 Scandi floating head + Airflo floating running line + pack of Airflo tips.

                    Technique: I studied a couple of videos by a USA guide called Bill Lowe and can, to my great relief, now hurl a reasonable fly from left or right bank with my timing from the scandi head as it turns at the anchor point in the water near me.
                    The technique for single or double 'spey' casts only differs in how the anchor is made.

                    See...
                    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=84p6UHh...%3D84p6UHhXcIQ
                    And...
                    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6MvN7QK...%3D6MvN7QK8Pi4

                    TL's, Ian

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There are essentially 2 sets of line ratings AFTM for single handed rods and AFFTA for double handed. To try and give a comparison that is relatively straight forward a single handed 7 weight rod requires a line with a grain rating of approximately 185gr. A 7 weight double handed rod requires a grain rating of approximately 400gr for a medium bellied Spey line. The lines are designed quite differently because in the majority of cases lines designed for overhead casting have the weight distributed more evenly than lines developed for Spey casting where the weight of the head only is utilised to load the road with the anchor in the water. I think you will find that this is why a lot of line manufacturers fall flat on their arses when attempting to design a true switch line because the laws of physics make this difficult at best. It is therefore at least in my own opinion more practical to have 2 lines for your switch rod, one suited for single or even double handed overhead casting and one for Spey's. The alternative if course is to use a light short headed Spey line or shooting head and use your switch rod exclusively for Spey casting. I have some video clips posted on YouTube of some Spey casts with an Orvis Helios 7 weight (AFFTA rating) that Orvis sent me to try out coupled with a Rio AFS 26g floating shooting head. The rod was an absolute joy to use and more than light enough to cast single handed. The fact is though I really don't see why anybody would want to


                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koAArZJP7oo


                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AarH4KH0_B0


                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jVb13vDYLA
                      www.silversalmon.co.uk

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by laffingravy View Post
                        There are essentially 2 sets of line ratings AFTM for single handed rods and AFFTA for double handed. To try and give a comparison that is relatively straight forward a single handed 7 weight rod requires a line with a grain rating of approximately 185gr. A 7 weight double handed rod requires a grain rating of approximately 400gr for a medium bellied Spey line. The lines are designed quite differently because in the majority of cases lines designed for overhead casting have the weight distributed more evenly than lines developed for Spey casting where the weight of the head only is utilised to load the road with the anchor in the water. I think you will find that this is why a lot of line manufacturers fall flat on their arses when attempting to design a true switch line because the laws of physics make this difficult at best. It is therefore at least in my own opinion more practical to have 2 lines for your switch rod, one suited for single or even double handed overhead casting and one for Spey's. The alternative if course is to use a light short headed Spey line or shooting head and use your switch rod exclusively for Spey casting. I have some video clips posted on YouTube of some Spey casts with an Orvis Helios 7 weight (AFFTA rating) that Orvis sent me to try out coupled with a Rio AFS 26g floating shooting head. The rod was an absolute joy to use and more than light enough to cast single handed. The fact is though I really don't see why anybody would want to


                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koAArZJP7oo


                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AarH4KH0_B0


                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jVb13vDYLA
                        That makes a lot of sense LG |\

                        On that note, the only line I have found that does 'sort of' work for both is the airflo 40+. They are essentially welded shooting heads anyway, so work around your notes above. Interesting to note too that after chatting with Scott Mackenzie this is the line that he was also recommending.

                        TT.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Teifi-Terrorist View Post
                          But assume then T7 that the #8 that would not load at all would load ok with an overhead? Or not? With mine it's very much a case of a standard #8 line will overhead fine, but too light for spey with little lifting power. However, the spey equivalent loads fine for waterborn but too heavy for overhead. As such, as I said originally; you have to decide how you're going to use it and then buy the line accordingly. Does that make sense? I do agree; not really switch then at all.

                          TT.
                          I think that's about right TT. A true switch line has to be heavy enough to load easily for double hand spey casting but not so heavy that you can't single hand cast it. Presumably it's all in the line/head taper and the sweet spot in terms of grain window for the rod. I'm not a casting guru so don't know the exact detail on how it all works.

                          My set up works well with a 6 weight (double hand rated) Orvis switch line and an 11ft 8/9 rated trout rod with long extension handle.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by laffingravy View Post
                            There are essentially 2 sets of line ratings AFTM for single handed rods and AFFTA for double handed. To try and give a comparison that is relatively straight forward a single handed 7 weight rod requires a line with a grain rating of approximately 185gr. A 7 weight double handed rod requires a grain rating of approximately 400gr for a medium bellied Spey line. The lines are designed quite differently because in the majority of cases lines designed for overhead casting have the weight distributed more evenly than lines developed for Spey casting where the weight of the head only is utilised to load the road with the anchor in the water. I think you will find that this is why a lot of line manufacturers fall flat on their arses when attempting to design a true switch line because the laws of physics make this difficult at best. It is therefore at least in my own opinion more practical to have 2 lines for your switch rod, one suited for single or even double handed overhead casting and one for Spey's. The alternative if course is to use a light short headed Spey line or shooting head and use your switch rod exclusively for Spey casting. I have some video clips posted on YouTube of some Spey casts with an Orvis Helios 7 weight (AFFTA rating) that Orvis sent me to try out coupled with a Rio AFS 26g floating shooting head. The rod was an absolute joy to use and more than light enough to cast single handed. The fact is though I really don't see why anybody would want to


                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koAArZJP7oo


                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AarH4KH0_B0


                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jVb13vDYLA
                            Totally understand LG, very clear. I really don't see the point of a switch if you aren't actually switching though! Carrying two lines for one rod and having to swap them depending on what type of cast you want to do isn't really switch fishing IMHO. You may as well either choose a short double hander or stick with a single hander (maybe one handed spey casting is better in this instance? - quite easy with a lot a left hand hauling)

                            As I say Orvis seem to have got their switch line right, certainly the 6 weight is more than capable of doing both.

                            As always, just my opinion |\

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by T7 View Post
                              I really don't see the point of a switch if you aren't actually switching though! You may as well either choose a short double hander or stick with a single hander (maybe one handed spey casting is better in this instance? - quite easy with a lot a left hand hauling)

                              |\

                              A very relevant point indeed. I think you will agree that if you find a rod and line that work together and work for you and your river then stick with it. The difficulty is of course is that if you make a good choice at the outset then you are set up for ever. If you are unlucky enough to find something that doesn't quite work as well as it should then you will very quickly be turned off switch rods. A lot of the manufacturers provide advice that is sometime ambiguous at best and it can be an absolute minefield when trying to pair stuff up effectively. There appears to be some degree of confusion about the origins of switch rods. I have seen protracted debates rage on and on and on about how and why they were developed. Yes there is a strong train of thought that suggests that the rods offers or should offer the versatility to switch between overhead and water anchored casts. The other suggestion is the fact that the Yanks tend to call the Forward Spey or Jump roll the Switch Cast and that the rod was developed for Spey casting only. This appears to be where a lot of well intentioned individuals with strong opinions get quite excited. I personally feel that neither argument is particularly right or wrong. The original purpose of the development of the switch rod seems lost on most of us. I suppose, as with all things fishing related there are no absolutes. If you can make stuff work for you and work with minimum effort then your fishing is totally enhanced and the rod and line are working and you are not busting your balls to get a fly into a pool
                              www.silversalmon.co.uk

                              Comment

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