barbless flies for next year

[JAN]

With the new NRW rules due next year, has anyone any experience of fishing barbless flies at night ?

[Teifi-Terrorist]

With the new NRW rules due next year, has anyone any experience of fishing barbless flies at night ?

Hi Jan,

yes, but not a positive one. I did fish barbless flies at night many years ago on the Spey. It was a disaster, to put it mildly. I am confident fishing for all other game fish, including salmon, with barbless flies, but not sea trout - largely because of how sea trout fight.

They could have easily said single hooks or even micro-barb only, which would have made more sense and be easier to adopt.

As a side note; you could, of course, target brown trout at night - a time when a good percentage of larger browns are caught anyway. By doing this you can fish barbed flies as you wish. If a sea trout takes then the bycatch cannot be helped...

TT.

[mepps4me]

Where can I find the new byelaws for next year? I have searched everywhere but can not find anything. Some time ago I did read the proposals somewhere on line but can't even find that any more.

[JAN]

Hi Jan,

yes, but not a positive one. I did fish barbless flies at night many years ago on the Spey. It was a disaster, to put it mildly. I am confident fishing for all other game fish, including salmon, with barbless flies, but not sea trout - largely because of how sea trout fight.

They could have easily said single hooks or even micro-barb only, which would have made more sense and be easier to adopt.

As a side note; you could, of course, target brown trout at night - a time when a good percentage of larger browns are caught anyway. By doing this you can fish barbed flies as you wish. If a sea trout takes then the bycatch cannot be helped...

TT.

Many thanks for your input TT,

I hope they reconsider the barbless plan and go to single hooks, I do not think the byelaws are finally published/agreed yet.

I did catch some nice brown trout at night this year, so maybe your suggestion on bycatch should be adopted by all disenfranchised Sewin fishermen.

Jan

[JAN]

Where can I find the new byelaws for next year? I have searched everywhere but can not find anything. Some time ago I did read the proposals somewhere on line but can't even find that any more.

Hello mepps4me,

it has become very confusing with the proposal, consultation and then the legal battle.

The link below may help, its from the NRW web site, not sure if it is the latest, but from what I have seen the barbless has not changed.

https://cdn.naturalresources.wales/m...e-16-03-18.pdf

Jan

[spyderweb]

I have been using barbless flies at night for the past 9 years, and after adapting different types of hooks and the way that they are knotted to the leader, I find no difference to my catch rate.

[mepps4me]

How do you tie your hooks to the leader now and how has it made a difference?

[spyderweb]

I use a short shanked ring eyed hook with a straight point. I thread the leader up through the underside of the eye, form a 3 turn uni-knot loop or a double Turle knot and then pass the hook through that loop and snug the connection tight around the shank next to the eye. The pull on the leader drives the hook point in. This method does not work with an upturned or downturned eye. If you want to experiment with this I suggest that you compare different knots on identical short/medium shanked hooks and pull the hook across some foam that is set at an angle. The edge of the foam simulates the edge of the fish's jaw. You can then compare the number of hookups for each knot. This little experiment is quite enlightening. I use this knot for my short shank hooks with tube flies, I do not anchor the hook with some soft tubing, I let the hook hang free. When this knot is used with flies dressed directly to the hook, I leave a small gap behind the eye to snuggle the knot to the shank. All my 'standard' patterns are designed to swim hook point up, allowing a level retrieve without the bend of the fly drooping. When a fly swims hook point up, the vast majority of hookups are in the top jaw. This is an advantage in that the pull from rod tip to the fish is directing the point of the hook in deeper. This does not always happen when a fish is hooked in the lower jaw or tongue. Because of the hard bony nature of many salmonids I find that a straight parallel point or a slight outpoint is advantageous to obtain quick penetration. An incurved point as seen on many carp hooks is not so efficient in my view. Many seasons ago I experimented with tandems using barbless circle hooks and caught plenty of fish, but waiting for the fish to hook itself was a difficult new habit. This was dismissed by one person on this forum, I suspect that they did not try it for themselves. Perhaps some fish were missed because of the type of hook, it is difficult to tell in the dark. I found that unhooking the fish with it remaining in the water with a circle hook was difficult, and so after two seasons, I searched for something else. An incurved point will certainly hold on to a fish better than a straight point but will be less successful at hooking in the first place. The big advantage of using barbless flies/tube flies is that a fish can be unhooked in the water by using the rod point release described many years ago by John Goddard. Attracting, hooking and playing a fish relating to the type of hook used will always be a compromise, so far I am satisfied with my method of attaching the hook. With the angle of pull mostly to the bend, a barbless hook will not fall out as long as there is some tension on the line. The danger of losing a fish is magnified when it jumps and I increase the pull when the fish is in the air and after it lands back in the water. The hooks I use are usually sizes 12, 10 and 8 but a few seasons back I used size 14s barbless extra strong hooks where leverage against the fish's jaw is almost non-existent and very successful they were too.

[teififlies]

Mepps4me. The date of the post was the 1st of April and I think the spider is trying to lure people into his web.

[mepps4me]

Spyderweb - Thank you very much for talking the time to post such a comprehensive and interesting reply. Plenty there to think about.

Teififlies - After posting my question that crossed my mind as well !!,

[spyderweb]

Spyderweb - Thank you very much for talking the time to post such a comprehensive and interesting reply. Plenty there to think about.

Teififlies - After posting my question that crossed my mind as well !!,

It is genuine. Try some of the experiments with different knots and on different types of eye. The most efficient hooking that I have found is when there is no knot at all, but a blob of nylon above the eye. The hook can then rotate on the nylon and find the easiest purchase. The stiffer the nylon, the more this is pronounced. If the nylon is very limp or braid is used, then the difference is negligible. When I use a fly that has no bare shank just behind the eye, or if the dressing needs to be forward of the eye e.g. a Shipman's buzzer, I push the leader through the underside of the eye and tie it direct to a small 1mm tippet ring. There are many more ways of using this knotting method but the ones that I have described work the best for me. I hope that I have made my contribution clear to visualise.

[JAN]

I use a short shanked ring eyed hook with a straight point. I thread the leader up through the underside of the eye, form a 3 turn uni-knot loop or a double Turle knot and then pass the hook through that loop and snug the connection tight around the shank next to the eye. The pull on the leader drives the hook point in. This method does not work with an upturned or downturned eye. If you want to experiment with this I suggest that you compare different knots on identical short/medium shanked hooks and pull the hook across some foam that is set at an angle. The edge of the foam simulates the edge of the fish's jaw. You can then compare the number of hookups for each knot. This little experiment is quite enlightening. I use this knot for my short shank hooks with tube flies, I do not anchor the hook with some soft tubing, I let the hook hang free. When this knot is used with flies dressed directly to the hook, I leave a small gap behind the eye to snuggle the knot to the shank. All my 'standard' patterns are designed to swim hook point up, allowing a level retrieve without the bend of the fly drooping. When a fly swims hook point up, the vast majority of hookups are in the top jaw. This is an advantage in that the pull from rod tip to the fish is directing the point of the hook in deeper. This does not always happen when a fish is hooked in the lower jaw or tongue. Because of the hard bony nature of many salmonids I find that a straight parallel point or a slight outpoint is advantageous to obtain quick penetration. An incurved point as seen on many carp hooks is not so efficient in my view. Many seasons ago I experimented with tandems using barbless circle hooks and caught plenty of fish, but waiting for the fish to hook itself was a difficult new habit. This was dismissed by one person on this forum, I suspect that they did not try it for themselves. Perhaps some fish were missed because of the type of hook, it is difficult to tell in the dark. I found that unhooking the fish with it remaining in the water with a circle hook was difficult, and so after two seasons, I searched for something else. An incurved point will certainly hold on to a fish better than a straight point but will be less successful at hooking in the first place. The big advantage of using barbless flies/tube flies is that a fish can be unhooked in the water by using the rod point release described many years ago by John Goddard. Attracting, hooking and playing a fish relating to the type of hook used will always be a compromise, so far I am satisfied with my method of attaching the hook. With the angle of pull mostly to the bend, a barbless hook will not fall out as long as there is some tension on the line. The danger of losing a fish is magnified when it jumps and I increase the pull when the fish is in the air and after it lands back in the water. The hooks I use are usually sizes 12, 10 and 8 but a few seasons back I used size 14s barbless extra strong hooks where leverage against the fish's jaw is almost non-existent and very successful they were too.

Hello Spyderweb,

thank you for sharing your valuable experience, i have been looking for barbless long shank hooks with curved in points, maybe I need short shank with turned out points.
You have some things to think on in my fly deign for this year.
I have difficulty in curbing my instinct to slacked off when a fish jumps, I think this will be more important when using barbless.

Can you tell us what hooks you use ? Do you squash the barbs or are they bespoke barbless ?

Many thanks,

Jan

[spyderweb]

The hooks that I been looking for have been hard to find. I use barbless, I don't like the barbs crushed, it exposes the metal to rusting and sometimes with high carbon content they can be weakened and subsequently snap when playing a fish. I have some Korum Xpert specialist, size 6 is within the 7mm rules for the new gape sizes. Partridge F7 size 6 is 7mm and Ridge Monkey straight point size 8. All these hooks are forged at the bend. The Ridge Monkey hooks are short shank, ideal for tube flies. There are longer shanked barbless hooks available for fly dressing, some of the best that I have used are made by Daiichi. The popular Kamasan B175 has a bigger gape size for size when comparing hooks from these manufacturers, and I don't like the down eye anyway. When comparing hooks and knots drawn across using a piece of firm plastazote, long-shanked hooks hook further away from the edge [fish's outer jaw], and the increased leverage can be observed on the shank after a good pull with the hook levering out of its hold. The flies that I use are simple and may not look professional, but they all have specific functions.

[JAN]

The hooks that I been looking for have been hard to find. I use barbless, I don't like the barbs crushed, it exposes the metal to rusting and sometimes with high carbon content they can be weakened and subsequently snap when playing a fish. I have some Korum Xpert specialist, size 6 is within the 7mm rules for the new gape sizes. Partridge F7 size 6 is 7mm and Ridge Monkey straight point size 8. All these hooks are forged at the bend. The Ridge Monkey hooks are short shank, ideal for tube flies. There are longer shanked barbless hooks available for fly dressing, some of the best that I have used are made by Daiichi. The popular Kamasan B175 has a bigger gape size for size when comparing hooks from these manufacturers, and I don't like the down eye anyway. When comparing hooks and knots drawn across using a piece of firm plastazote, long-shanked hooks hook further away from the edge [fish's outer jaw], and the increased leverage can be observed on the shank after a good pull with the hook levering out of its hold. The flies that I use are simple and may not look professional, but they all have specific functions.

Hello Spyderweb,

Thank you for your response, I will copy your example and hopefully catch fish, when we are allowed back to the river.

Jan

[spyderweb]

Hello Spyderweb,

Thank you for your response, I will copy your example and hopefully catch fish, when we are allowed back to the river.

Jan

Soon hopefully. I missed out on fishing last season, bought the rod licence and two club tickets on the 29th March and snapped my tendons in both knees on the 31st March. I am used to the lockdown!