single vs double vs treble - debate!

[Duncan]

I could have tagged this onto the circle hook thread, but decided to start afresh.

Some like to fish doubles and trebles rather than single hooks. I'd just like to know why, and what the experience is here of holding fish on different hooks?

I fish single, barbless or debarbed fly hooks (bass, trout, grayling, pike, coarse fish and soon hopefully a few sewin!), and have done for a long time. It hasn't had a negative effect on netted fish. I do notice more fish find a way free on a extra longshank hook with a small front length, from bend to point. Some klinkhammer hooks are particularly poor. I guess there is more leverage on the hook hold the longer the shank.

In theory a single hook point (well struck) should have more holding power than two or three, where the pressure is spread between the different points?

I've been tying up some simple tube flies, with a 4 yr old daughters help (she keeps insisting on adding pink...). I aim to fish them with a single hook.

In Canada and BC the rule is single barbless hooks for salmon and steelhead, and that doesn't stop people catching some very, very big fish, and lots of them.

What are your thoughts? Is it just habit, or tradition - following the old patterns, or is there more to it? Sock it to me!

[T7]

I use doubles on my tubes and they usually stick ok! I don't like trebles as they make a mess of small fish and I do fish singles as well. Sea trout can be infuriating in their ability to whack a fly hard and somehow not get hooked, a few of those and you might be reaching for a tandem treble!

[laffingravy]

Poorly handled fish will in every likelihood die regardless of whatever type of hook you elect to use. I do however completely concur with Simon's suggestion that trebles do tend to mangle up small fish. None of us can prevent small fish from having a bang at whatever fly we are fishing with. I have posted photographs of dressed tubes to the fishing community and been met with more than one raised eyebrow because I had inserted a single hook up the proverbial 'arse end'. 'Oh fish with singles do you?' The greatest issue that I have when using a single in a tube is getting one to mount so that the tube and hook stay 'in plane' as invariably the hook turns upside down. I have spoken to a hook manufacturer with a view to addressing this and was met with a confused response.

[Willies62]

For many years when fishing for Bass I've used singles rather than trebles. Although Bass do tend to take in a different way, ie suck in / engulf a bait, using a single hasn't effected the hooking. Circle hooks are also good as long as you let the fish take the bait rather than strike into the fish.

[Sawyer]

I very rarely use trebles nowadays for either salmon or sewin, not noticed any difference in numbers of fish landed/lost. I do use a slightly larger hook than previous but with a thinner wire (if that makes sense). The only thing I have found is that a Mepps does not work well with anything except a treble, consequently I tend not to use them now.
Live baiting for bass I always use circles now & not had any fish deep hooked unlike when I used to use trebles. Last year I started to use circles for sewin, I fish the worm at night on some of the beats I fish where the fly is unfishable, I found that provided not too much time was given then they were in the scissors on every occasion but 3.

[Duncan]

Really interesting.

Sawyer - I'm intrigued. Do you use a circle hook on a tube fly or just a standard hook? I'm planning on using a standard barbless carp hook #8-10 (maybe a #6 for bigger fish) with tubes. What size hook do you guys advise for a single on a tube? The advantage of carp hooks - very strong, great penetration and holding power, true barbless so a good taper on the point. I've used them for trout/grayling nymphs and they hook really well, and you need forceps to remove they stick that firmly.

Bass - I've had some good bass on fly, single hooks, and they do take with a solid thump. I've found it best to keep the rod down and let the fish set the hook with bass. Best day was 29 bass in under 2 hours, and I don't think I bumped a single fish, all solid hookups. Nothing over about 2.5lb though. It was quite an experience, crystal clear water and small bait balls all around with bass skimming over shallow sand and smashing into them - you could just pop the fly in front and they were on.

laffingravy - have you tried whipping a little flat lead on the underside of the hook, that should keep it in plane? On my river nymphs I do the opposite and lay a bit of flattened roofing lead on the top of the hook before dressing to make the nymphs run upside down (on most occasions) so I minimise snags when trawling the bottom for grayling.

Another negative I find with trebles apart from making a mess of small fish is the mess they make of a good net. I like to maximise my fishing time and spend as little of it as possible untangling things! I have resorted to scissors when pike fishing and just sewn up the holes when I finished fishing!

[laffingravy]

Duncan with the greatest of respect the naivety of your reply suggests to me that you don't do an awful lot of sea trout and salmon fishing with tubes. In the scenario to which I refer adding weight to the underside of the hook will achieve absolutely nothing as it is the tube that spins on the line and hook which causes the phenomenon to which I refer not how the hook is weighted. Your suggestion does of course work and work extremely well when fishing with a jig hook for trout and grayling. I do not however jig for sea trout and salmon. As for trebles snagging up in nets? If I didn't tail my fish as opposed to netting them which I believe causes them additional distress then it might be an issue. As it stands it is not. I do not fish for bass so will decline to comment on that matter. If however you are proposing fishing barbless for sea trout, which I do fish and fish a lot for I wish you the very best of luck. I think you will find that you will need it.

[Duncan]

laffingravy - You've got it in one. I am a complete novice at seatrout fishing and have never fished a tube fly, so forgive me for that! haha I don't think I understand your issue at all then, is it a spinning tube that's the problem, the hook remaining stationery?

I've been looking at some salmon tubes underwater footage on youtube, some of which are interesting at least https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...es+underwater.

When unhooking I always keep the net and fish in the water, so the fish can recover during the unhooking process, and I'll continue to do that unless the fish is far to big for the net of course. I've unhooked big double figure pike, and a flukey salmon a while back, and it seems to be the least stressful method for me for bigger fish. There is no external pressure on the fish, it's supported by the water, but can't escape. I have absolutely zero first hand experience of tailing fish, but have seen it done on film many times. I'd only attempt it with an experienced tailer on hand for advice! Done well I don't doubt it is a flawless and perfect catch and release method, but some people tailing fish onto sharp fine gravel, or missing countless times will do some damage I'm guessing.

[Sawyer]

On tubes I now use either the Loop or Fulling Mill doubles, never a single. As intimated in previous posts a "lively" Sea Trout on a barbless hook in the pitch dark is going to be a challenge at the best of times. In 40 odd years of fishing for Sea Trout the only Fly that I have seen do anything approaching damage to a fish are the long tandem hooks (Falkus type), nowadays I just use a snake, again with a double on the back.

[Duncan]

Thanks for the replies. I'll take everything on board and see how I get on.

[Duncan]

Anyone come across this article before? http://www.ogmoreangling.com/single%...e%20flies.html

[Teifi-Terrorist]

Hi Duncan,

I believe that trebles are very much a confidence factor i.e. more hook points = better hook hold. This does also stem from tradition.

I no longer use trebles as I don't believe they are called for and also they do make releasing a fish more problematic - especially smaller fish, as some members have already noted.

On tubes I use doubles as I believe they sit better and fish the tubes better. I also tend to fish these quite large, preferring a wider gape. These larger hooks are easier to unhook too.

When fishing surface lures, secret weapons/stingers, tandems etc. I now only use singles at the back.

I have not see a reduction in the landing rate since making this transition, but I have found it easier to get the fish back on their way quicker, which is never a bad thing.

Singles hooks give the best hook hold of them all in my experience, as there are no other point to work against each other.

De-barbed; this is not something I practice or would advocate for sea trout. Virtually all other species yes, but not sea trout; primarily because of the way they fight.

Again, just my approach and it works for me |\

TT.

[Duncan]

Really interesting TT. I will start off with singles on the tubes and see how I get on, may resort to doubles as the season progresses! I better get tying up a few more flies.

[Teifi-Terrorist]

My pleasure |\

Here are a few different models to try and to get you started with:

http://www.hairrigs.com/coarse-carp-...-rapier-series

http://www.nashtackle.co.uk/products/view/fang-gaper

http://www.partridge-of-redditch.co....ic-tube-single

Tight lines,

TT.

[Duncan]

Thanks TT. That's just what I need, thanks for the links.