Circle hooks for Sewin / Salmon

[grey duster]

I was always under the impression that sea trout are sea going brownies.
I do not know if there have there always been sea trout in Argentina or are they perhaps a result of Welshmen introducing brownies to the rivers ?

[zimtrout]

they may be sea going brownies now, but where did they start??? just a theory...
regarding takes the fish i have hooked well have always been solid takes, i would not describe them as a quick take..more a take and then solid resistance, i drag my rod more horizontal than strike upwards to set the hook.
having said that i am no expert,

[Mick B]

Well done on your catches Zimtrout.

spyderweb
Can you please tell me the distance, eye to eye of your tandem hooks on the flies your using.

Personally I would just like a hooking system that caught me more fish than Im managing to hook so far and as your tandem set- up works for you Im certainly willing to give it a fair trial.

Many thanks in advance.

[spyderweb]

Interesting and thanks for the response SW. Again, it doesn't quite fit right in my head, but each to their own. |\

As for this:


Actually, sea trout are a freshwater fish that has gone to sea. Their mouths do not differ in size of that of a brown trout? A 2lbs brown trout would have the same size mouth as a 2lbs sea trout?

TT.

I see more sense in the theory of sea fish re-populating rivers after the alleged ice age. Sea trout on average have bigger mouths than brown trout because they grow bigger in the sea than the trout in spate rivers. I wasn't comparing sea trout and brown trout of equal size, I have caught many large sea trout in rivers but only one brown trout up to 3.75lbs.

[spyderweb]

I think I'm fishing for a different species!In all my years of fishing for Sewin and guiding I've got it all wrong.Complete and utter rubbish,Sewin are one of the fastest taking fish you can have, it will take and drop your fly in a breath.Perhaps there's a different breed of Sewin out there that have adapted to circle hooks?

I'm always experimenting on different methods and tactics for all my fishing. I keep an open mind. It's not complete and utter rubbish and I too have been fishing for many years and caught near to a thousand sea trout, but I am not set in my ways. This is a forum where anglers should speak their mind and report relevant experiences. Perhaps there's a different breed of moderators that think that sarcasm is appropriate.

[Teifi-Terrorist]

I was always under the impression that sea trout are sea going brownies.
I do not know if there have there always been sea trout in Argentina or are they perhaps a result of Welshmen introducing brownies to the rivers ?

They are, GD. It just depends how far back you want to look at things i.e. Human evolution back to the aquatic stage. They are genetically the same. For example, the Teifi was historically a salmon and brown trout river. Many moons ago sea trout rarely made it above Newcastle Emlyn. Lack of food in freshwater drove them to sea. As a rule; a good brown trout river is not a good sea trout river and the same in reverse.

You are correct. Many of the brown trout introduced to the Rio Grande were from Loch Leven.

TT.

[Teifi-Terrorist]

I wasn't comparing sea trout and brown trout of equal size, I have caught many large sea trout in rivers but only one brown trout up to 3.75lbs.

Your statement was that sea trout have bigger mouths as they are sea fish, spyderweb, which is incorrect. Of course a bigger fish will have a bigger head! That's a bit like saying an adult has a bigger head than a child?! A bit obvious really.

A 1lb brown trout will have a smaller head than a 3lbs one. The same would apply to sea trout. However, a 1lb brown trout would have the same size head as a sea trout of the same size, the same applying to the 3lb fish. No basis whatsoever to your statement of them being sea fish and having a bigger mouth as a result.

TT.

[twmtwm]

I'm always experimenting on different methods and tactics for all my fishing. I keep an open mind. It's not complete and utter rubbish and I too have been fishing for many years and caught near to a thousand sea trout, but I am not set in my ways. This is a forum where anglers should speak their mind and report relevant experiences. Perhaps there's a different breed of moderators that think that sarcasm is appropriate.

You're right a forum is a place to speak your mind,and I'm not been sarcastic,a lot of novices take advice from this forum and I'd hate to see them been taken in by this dribble.Nothing personal of course.

[Mick B]

Many anglers are perfectly happy if the method they use catches them the fish they seek. Some of these anglers will never change because what they achieve satisfies them.
Anglers at the other end of the scale are always experimenting, constantly trying different methods, lures, tackle, tactics, etc.
There isn't any requirement of either angler to be considered superior or inferior, its just the way we are as individuals.


Personally if Im catching a fish a chuck I will change to an experimental fly or lure, different rod, line or reel, just to see if I can continue the same rate of success.
Angling to me HAS to be a continuous challenge and I will change my target species as the seasons come and go, change tackle as it evolves and constantly experiment with new ideas, some my own inventions, many from other anglers via forums or from angling history.
I actually don't know how many forums Im on worldwide but it must number well over thirty, many are highly technical and in languages I don't fully understand but there is always something that can be learnt from fellow anglers simply because we all pursue the same basic species.

Big mouth/small mouth.
Ive caught brown trout to over 10lbs and sea trout to 16lbs.
The biggest brownies I have caught certainly had big mouths, many were from deep stillwaters and were caught on 6" long lures while pike trolling.
I have also caught a Chalkstream brownie of 8lbs plus that had a mouth smaller than the sea trout of the similar weight I caught from the same river a month or two later.
But thats is just two fish caught in winter, from one Hampshire river.
I expect Darwin would say a fish would evolve to eat whatever prey was consistently available but that wouldn't explain why a 2lb brownie doesn't have a mini mouth because they 'appear' to only eat invertebrates, or why they have teeth?

Big head/small head
I have caught trout from upland lakes in South Island New Zealand that had huge heads for the size of their body, the heads were probably 1/4 the size of the whole fish. Not all fish are equal even of the same species, some grow fast some slower, some get fat easily, others are more athletic and yes some do have bigger heads or even tails.
Eg; As an organiser for IGFA tournaments I have weighed and photographed two Blue Marlin that were within a few kilos of each other, yet one had a tail almost a full 12" wider than the other.
If someone suggests the fish they are catching have large mouths who are we to discount their observations? The polite response should be to suggest they take a few good photographs to illustrate their observations.

Good brown trout river/poor sea trout river.
The river Itchen and river Test are two exceptions to this rule.

Circle hooks can be an important conservation tool and many trials have proved.
In my experience from sharks to grayling it is rare for a circle hook not to secure a hold in the fishes (any species) jaw or hinge.
The speed of the fish attacking the lure is irrelevant, if the hook goes fully into the fishes mouth and the fish turns away the fish will be hooked as the line goes tight.
Tuna are probably one of the fastest fish that swims and they can be consistently caught on circle rigged trolling lures.


Forum moderation.
A forum moderator should always promote a friendly environment where members can freely exchange ideas in a non-offensive manner.
Moderators should always promote and demonstrate the principles of the forum and are not exempt from the general rules for the forum.
Moderators are the role models for the forum and members will emulate their actions, thus bad language, innuendoes, dismissive or derisory comments should be avoided.

I am a moderator on another forum.

[twmtwm]

Good for you Mick B,the Moderator needs moderating.Still a load of dribble.Please don't take offense.

[Teifi-Terrorist]

MickB. Sorry, not enough energy or time to reply in full detail, especially as a lot of it is off topic and also pedantic.

Good sea trout vs bad sea trout rivers; as you can note, I said 'as a rule'. This does not cover all rivers and there are exceptions to the rule.

As for the fish mouths; read the comments before making such remarks please. You will note that the person who made the initial comment agrees with the fact that fish of the same size would have same sized mouths!!! Which then makes the comment about them being sea fish and having bigger mouths both contradictory and nonsensical!

Great that you are a moderator. You will also then appreciate the task at hand. I am more than happy with how the forum is run and don't need to be told by someone who has a handful of posts on the forum how we should conduct ourselves moving forward.

Furthermore I totally agree with Twm-Twm; there are novices looking in and we have a duty to look after them and how they approach the fish. I believe the circle hook argument on the fly front for sea trout to be absolute drivel, and have explained why. However, I have also said that if some choose to use them and have success then good on them and good luck to them.

TT.

[spyderweb]

Well done on your catches Zimtrout.

spyderweb
Can you please tell me the distance, eye to eye of your tandem hooks on the flies your using.

Personally I would just like a hooking system that caught me more fish than Im managing to hook so far and as your tandem set- up works for you Im certainly willing to give it a fair trial.

Many thanks in advance.

The small tandems are 1.25" using size 6 hooks so the overall dressed length is approximately 1.75" and the larger tandems are 2" from eye to eye using size 6 or size 4 hooks with an overall length of between 2.5" and 3".

[Mick B]

Many thanks

The small tandems are 1.25" using size 6 hooks so the overall dressed length is approximately 1.75" and the larger tandems are 2" from eye to eye using size 6 or size 4 hooks with an overall length of between 2.5" and 3".

Many thanks for your detailed reply.
Just a few extra details, what brand of circles do you prefer, and do you rig them on a loop/open blood type or fixed?

Ive been using Eagle Claw for years and have them in many sizes but not as small as you use.

Im going to make up a few trial lures for use this week and will keep you updated on how I get on.

Thanks again

[spyderweb]

Many thanks for your detailed reply.
Just a few extra details, what brand of circles do you prefer, and do you rig them on a loop/open blood type or fixed?

Ive been using Eagle Claw for years and have them in many sizes but not as small as you use.

Im going to make up a few trial lures for use this week and will keep you updated on how I get on.

Thanks again

I initially used Owner Mutu Light Circle and Sakuma 440 circle hooks which are offset but I now prefer the Mustad Demon circles and the Eagle Claw 702 for tandems which are inline. For single flies I prefer the Mustad 51S light wire and the Mustad 71SS heavy wire which are both longshanks.

http://www.uk-hooks.com/category.php?selected=261

I have sent for some Senyo's Articulated shanks to try next. These look interesting and should reduce the time to construct the flies.

http://www.funkyflytying.co.uk/shop/...d-shanks/1763/

I attach the flies with a Rapala loop knot for articulation, however the rear hook of the tandem is joined with 40lbs Amnesia monofilament so it's quite stiff. I also use 30lb braid to make the join, stiffened with superglue at certain points.
The 40lb nylon is heated at each end with a flame to create blob ends to avoid slippage when constructing the mount. Sometimes I dispense with the front hook and leave a gap at the front end near to the blobbed end to be able to tie on the leader with an uni knot. It is secure but tying the dressing on the nylon can be fiddly. I use the same join for the shock leader when beach casting. The blobbed end of 60lbs shock leader is attached with an uni knot using 15lbs running line. I have yet to have one fail.
Small circle hook gapes don't follow the standard parameters for J hooks and on two occasions I have had size 10s with a wider gape than the 6s of the same make with two different manufacturers. Different makes of 6s for example have different gapes. With some makes the gape is measured from the point to the shank but other seem to have no standard system.

[grey duster]

Reading recent posts,i have realised i am in an elite group,and am walking with a slight swagger.I must have caught way over a thousand sewin over the years.If i had ever got in to night fishing it could have been way more:>

Never mind Twmtwm.I do a lot of dribbling.Probably an age thing :>