Nets

[phl]

T I’m not saying keep a salmon, I’m saying preserve our right to keep a salmon. We might not agree to a bag limit greater than nil for many years to come, but life for me is far more severe.

That expresses my view also. I think that once compulsory C&R is introduced, it will remain for all time, and something that's important to some of us will be lost for ever.
I've stayed out of this debate because I don't really know the Teifi well; I've fished it a few times, but I live a long way away and at my age it's quite likely I'll never fish it again, but, like all of us, I do wish the river well and want to see fish stocks recover. I do think that it would be a step forward for anglers and netsmen to get together with this aim. I hold no brief for netsmen - like most anglers, I guess, I would be happy to see netting end - but we should recognise that, whatever our differences, anglers and netsmen share a common desire to sustain fish stocks. It's also the case, I think, that the Teifi coracles have some political clout because of their cultural significance and tourist appeal. If it can be achieved, making common cause with the netsmen could create a more effective lobby for action to address the real causes of declining stocks - which, I firmly belief, have little or nothing to do with exploitation by anglers or nets.

Paul

[Teifi-Terrorist]

T.T as usual you’ve made some good points and may i say it’s a pleasure to hear from you on this debate. Hopefully i can cover a few of your points.
It normally takes a threat and a severe measure for people to act; very few want to act years before it’s a major problem. Take global warming for instance, its human nature. With legislation staring us in the face I’d like to think we can all get together and save our right to keep a salmon.
Voluntary C & R? If we all look negatively at it then ok, we’ve lost everything. However, legislation would mean a fine if caught possibly only £100 who knows. Not much of a deterrent in my view. Losing your club membership and consequently also being banned from other clubs and private beats on the Teifi if we all got together would have far more impact. In fact if my memory is correct all clubs already have this agreement in place. Now that’s a far more severe punishment and deterrent.
I wouldn’t embarrass myself in trying to preach to the converted and i thought I’d be given a bit more respect than i have been. I’m obviously trying to get through to others with the assistance of the converted.
Introducing immediate measure? As you rightfully say I’ve proudly served at committee level and know the importance of consulting my members. We the committee’s of all clubs have always run our fishing clubs in accordance with our members wishes, which is why it is simple. 1. Call an E.G.M with possible postal voting. 2. Put all possible actions on the table to the members. 3. Decide the outcome based on the members wishes. Its only ink and paper. Voluntary C&R for Salmon could be introduced within weeks .Salmon could be saved this season. I obviously don’t know but do all LLAA members want legislation or would some rather fight to maintain their right to keep a salmon when the situation dictates?
Nets? I feel so much negativity. If you had all this negativity when you tried to unite the Teifi some years ago, no wonder you failed. You have my sympathy. It’s a big task. Surely at the first sign of breaking a voluntary agreement NRW would initiate proceedings to introduce legislation. Legislation or voluntary, with only one bailiff on the Teifi, policing is a huge problem. We must all try to gain more trust amongst each other.
Sea trout? We all know only too well Sea Trout stocks are declining and need to be addressed and I’m convinced the nets men will address this in due course. Of course the likes of you and i know that addressing the Sea Trout problem now is much better than allowing that horse to bolt again. Should we introduce a voluntary full C & R on Sea Trout and act immediately. Whats your thoughts?
Legislation for life? I’m sorry i just can’t agree with you on this one. My grandson is a passionate angler and i expect him to catch his first salmon this season and like my youngest daughter did, he will have to return it. We’ll have a few tears, he’ll have to be consoled but i will give him the hope that he will one day be able to keep one and it won’t be for life. Do you remember your first salmon? I do. As a past committee member i must look at our next generation of Teifi anglers and encourage new youngsters to fish and teach them how to conserve stocks. I can’t be selfish.
Please remember, I’m not saying keep a salmon, I’m saying preserve our right to keep a salmon. We might not agree to a bag limit greater than nil for many years to come, but life for me is far more severe.

Hi SM,
Thanks for the passionate and detailed reply.

Sad thing is we knew this was a problem years ago, hence why action needed to be taken years ago. The way I see it is that, again, the only reason why some are now chiming up (and I do not include you in this, as I know you have been championing such action for years) is because they now see the writing on the wall and that what has been looming for years were not idle threats after all.

Indeed (and sadly) I firmly believe why some are now outraged by the proposals is simply because they may not be able to continue to kill fish; regardless of whether it is sustainable to do so and regardless of what's happening on the river regarding parr/fry counts then pollution incidents. Quite simply, they just want to have the right to kill a fish regardless of what's right for the species and the river. To be totally blunt such archaic and nonsensical views have no place on the river nowadays, especially with the issues we are facing. Unfortunately it may take such drastic rules to either force them to change their ways or to push them onto stocked waters where they can continue to quench their blood-thirst.

Don't get me wrong, SM; I am 100% behind what you are proposing and only wish it could work on the Teifi. Indeed, I do think it could work on other rivers where e.g. you have one club controlling almost the entire length of river from source to sea. It is definitely the best answer, but sadly I cannot see it applying to the Teifi for a myriad of reasons, many of which I have already mentioned. Quite simply a handful cannot be trusted and would spoil it for the majority. Take Brylcream's post above as a case example; certainly not an isolated incident.

I agree there should be more cohesion between the clubs on the river, but with such drastic differences in mentality it would be largely impossible to achieve. Let's remember, after all, that one committee was recently overthrown because a contingent (many of which now sit as current committee members) did not agree with voluntary conservation measures the committee had introduced! I will not call the clubs out on public forum, but there are two in particular on the river who's attitudes are so archaic that I would find it hard to even sit at the same table as them. Their agenda and end goal is simply to plunder and to keep everything within their control to do so. Dress it as you wish, but I prefer to call a spade a spade.

Taking your instance into example about banned from one = banned from all. LlAA banned a member two seasons ago for rule breaking. A local club knew he had been banned but still greeted him with open arms. What message does that send out? Furthermore, if this cohesion did exist, what is to stop the angler from fishing private water? Nothing. Again, at least with NRW byelaws there is something tangible they can be charged with. This should, in my mind, then be backed up with your proposition and have the clubs along the river also issue a penalty; very much akin to a pub-watch type system. It is a hard line, yes, but that is what our river needs if it stands any chance of surviving let alone thriving.

Keep a salmon when the situation dictates; who is to arbitrate and ascertain this climate, SM? For example, we had a good run in 2010, should we then have been allowed to go back to killing in 2011, which turned out to be another poor season? 2010 was a good season, so we should then see the offspring in the 2014/15 season, but they did not materialise. Should we have opened up those seasons to killing regardless based on the hunch that the offspring would fill our river? Do we listen to tales from the riverbank about countless salmon being seen coming over Cenarth etc. before opening the river up to killing again? Do we glean the information from the annual catch returns, which are so easily manipulated and distorted?

Calling for an EGM and letting the members decide; how does that help the river, SM? What if the members of some clubs say yes to C&R then the members of another say no, which would be the probable outcome. Again, the problem is not addressed. Even if all the clubs say yes, what then of private water and individual fields not governed by such voluntary measures. Again, the problem is not addressed but merely passed on as those you wish to police think they are frightfully clever and will just find a way around such rules.

Nets; you have unfortunately read what you wanted to read on this front, because if you can identify such negativity from what I wrote rather than the clarity which I was trying to present then I'm afraid this stems from your own viewpoint not mine. I 100% believe SOME of the netsmen would kill the last fish that swam our river tomorrow, as would SOME anglers on the river - take Brylcream's post above as an example where one is the same in that instance. No points for guessing who that person in question was, by the way. Yet you still believe such people want the best for the river and will welcome proposals with open arms. Sorry SM, but we are on different books not different pages on that front.

Sea trout; an upper length limit would be a fantastic start and would help safeguard the future of the fish. One thing is for sure, the nets taking 700-1,000 sea trout averaging around 4 lbs each and every season is not doing our river any good (especially with the multi spawning nature of these fish), neither is then killing such fish with rod and line after they have run the gauntlet. Two simple measures that would help in the short term; maximum length to be killed by rod and line of 18 inches / 45cm, then take April away from the nets to allow more broodstock to enter the river - or, at the very least, issue a workable quota rather than allowing them to kill every fish that runs the river within their allotted season, as is currently the case. As for when to apply this from angling club perspective; my thoughts are the same as per my previous reply regarding the salmon rules. Again, we were hoping to see something tangible from NRW for this season, so realistically it would now be next season.

Again, SM, we are on very similar pages and have the same outlook in mind, but unfortunately I have less faith in some clubs and some anglers on our beautiful river. As a result, I can see compulsory legislation as the only means to give a positive and realistic future to our river, backed up by the support and clout of the angling clubs, as we will still very much have a role to play in all this.

TT.

[grey duster]

Again.Well said TT.
I have expressed my views on here before.The way the river is going,I think it should be obligatory to put back all salmon and sewin.Some people will not be happy until the last migratory fish has become "one for the table"

[grey duster]

I did suggest this some time ago but I think it was taken out of context.Is it not time that some effort was made to amalgamate all clubs on the Teifi under one banner.TTA,Llanybydder,Tregaron,Llandysul etc.One club would have one voice,and one set of rules,and have power over the future of river.
Shoot me down.

[daisyone]

One club wants legislation for life. Other clubs won,t even agree to voluntary c&r look at last weeks teifiside advertiser and the statement from the secretary of the T.T.A. Dreadful. The nets are returning all salmon excellent but would they do it next year and the year after etc. until the time is right. I go down the river and see it empty. I also look at the teifi and remember days gone by when we all had good sport. Why can,t we all get together and put our differences aside just this once and sort this mess out before its too late. I,m sure the wisdom of TT and sprayme can get everybody together NRW included and find a solution to a problem that is not possible to solve at present. Two thirds of Irish rivers are closed not regulated but closed. Those who want legislation might think they can carry on fishing for salmon and return them. Still good sport. But could we also be facing a CLOSED teifi one day. I know I will not save my teifi by bickering all the time. What are we waiting for?

[grey duster]

The situation is dire Daisyone.I know we should not harp back,but is has been reported on here that individual anglers used to catch 400+ sewin and 60+salmon per season.