Lets stop the CORACLES

[Teifi-Terrorist]

Where does this figure come from, TT? The EA report for 2010 confirms the catch of 1008, but gives a total weight of 688 Kg, which equates to an average weight more like 1.5 lbs. Have I missed something?

Paul

That is inaccurate Paul; they cannot physically catch fish that small due to the size of the net used. Basically the smallest sea trout the four inch mesh net used will catch is around 2.5 lbs. All others pass through the net.

My figure is from the 'licence wise catch log details' and actually after reviewing the figure is 1,017 sea trout with a weight of 3,859 lbs so 3.8lbs per sea trout, not 4.4 lbs as I mentioned above - sorry about that, I posted in haste without properly reflecting on my papers. In most years it just gives 2kg, hence my 4.4 lbs figure.

TT.

[grey duster]

When the coracles and seine nets finish for the day is there a fisheries officer
counting the catch?I have no idea how it works.Is it down to the net operators to declare the catch?If so it is wide open to abuse.

[grey duster]

sorry missed a bit out there.Is there a quota?Most sea nets have to stop fishing when they reach their quota,and there have been cases of a"black market".

[Teifi-Terrorist]

When the coracles and seine nets finish for the day is there a fisheries officer
counting the catch?I have no idea how it works.Is it down to the net operators to declare the catch?If so it is wide open to abuse.

Very much the same as for the rod fishery sadly, GD. Very few left on an enforcement perspective, so the checks would be very sporadic. We are lucky to have a great person looking after the Teifi, but he has a very long system to cover.

As the nets are allowed to essentially start/finish whenever they like within the days they are permitted to fish, it would be largely impossible to be there to check at a given time. As such, very much down to the individual licence holder to be honest with their return...

TT.

[mintylad]

Honesty now there's a word that is used but not understood! They might as well fill returns out at the start of the season and forget about it. I'm trying not to get to wound up by this subject but it really is starting to make my teeth itch! Can the coracle men be financially compensated to scale down their efforts? I know that they will say they are keeping a traditional style of fishing alive but if it's not sustainable how can it continue? I can't believe TTA are not on side they must be blind or twp.

[grey duster]

I was just asking the question.Is there any control over the nets?OK, years ago everything was sustainable and everybody was reasonably happy.Things have changed.We as a club are doing our bit.What are the rest of the clubs on the Teify doing?I hope they are following suit,but i very much doubt it.My teeth itch as well.I do not want to go through another season of not even seeing a salmon.

[Teifi-Terrorist]

I was just asking the question.Is there any control over the nets?OK, years ago everything was sustainable and everybody was reasonably happy.Things have changed.We as a club are doing our bit.What are the rest of the clubs on the Teify doing?I hope they are following suit,but i very much doubt it.My teeth itch as well.I do not want to go through another season of not even seeing a salmon.

Yes, the stocks have definitely changed GD but the rules and regulations have not changed in direct correlation with them, sadly. Indeed, the NRW rules and regulations placed on anglers are extremely outdated and it's individual club rules that keep moving with the times to help preserve what is left. Should we have to? In a way no, as we have a governing body that should reflect these changes and safeguard the future. However, if we don't then there is no future, or it is certainly very bleak. On the netting front they are not going to self police, as that would inevitably affect their catches and, therefore, profit. Quite simply; why would they?

As for the rest of the clubs on the Teifi; I have been in contact with them all about a common working practice on the river where tags were implemented on a system wide basis rather than individual clubs etc. and where we shared a common set of rules. This was well received by some, but others had absolutely no interest and would not even give me an audience.

Again, GD, you have one of the if not the most active coracle licence holders on the committee of the TTA! That speaks mountains and what a struggle we have in front of us.

Anyway, will keep doing my bit and let's see what comes of it all - can but try and better to have tried and failed...

TT.

[grey duster]

I am not quite with this.You seem to have a slight dispute over weight of fish taken by the nets,but latest figures seem to indicate approx 1000 actual fish.
We have 12 coracles and 2 seine nets on the river.That must be a minimum of
20 men.Over a 26 week season,they are catching less than 2 fish per man per week.Is it my maths or are we being totally mislead by their returns.If their catch is that low they will give up sooner than later.

[Teifi-Terrorist]

I am not quite with this.You seem to have a slight dispute over weight of fish taken by the nets,but latest figures seem to indicate approx 1000 actual fish.
We have 12 coracles and 2 seine nets on the river.That must be a minimum of
20 men.Over a 26 week season,they are catching less than 2 fish per man per week.Is it my maths or are we being totally mislead by their returns.If their catch is that low they will give up sooner than later.

You and me both GD. Imagine the value of those fish to the local economy from a tourism perspective to the rural economies vs. the short term gain on an ice block.

Simple math; 3,859 lbs of sea trout in 2010, given a generous market rate of £8 per lb makes £30,872 (this is probably closer to £6 per lb across the season as an average). You then have the 12 coracle licences, of which there will be 24 coracle anglers + the seine net team; not sure how many work that - from what I have seen a team of 4-5? Let's work with 4 on each licence to make 32 in total, which makes £965 per person! Then take away the cost of their licence; £582 for a seine licence and £248 (yes, really that low) for a coracle licence you are not left with much and hardly something that can be justified as a livelihood.

TT.

[grey duster]

TT
There is something seriously wrong here.Even if you are working a seine net part time,you have to say to your boss..by the way the tide is coming in ...I want 3 or 4 hours off work.We are being conned.

[grey duster]

I have fired off another email to chief fisheries officer NRW about this.Not holding out much hope,they have not replied to my previous ones.

[mintylad]

Without wanting to sound abrupt here gents arguing about the weights or numbers of fish the only real number that is of concern is 100 %. That being the number of dead fish. I might be wrong here but if a sewin can enter a river spawn and then migrate back to sea up to eight ot nine times in its lifetime then it's feasible for that fish to be caught and released that many times? So what price for that one fish? It has to be worth more than a bag full of sausages surely. What value to the local economy as a direct result of fishing I would be interested to know. I am not comfortable breaking down the situation in to a financial discussion but in these modern times it's all about the money. For a few men to prosper at the sacrifice of the wider community is wrong but they are not breaking the law so they will continue. It is blatantly obvious to everyone that the catch returns don't tally up to a profitable business model so either the whole coracle fleet are "twp" or their catch returns are hugely fabricated. I will shortly be drafting an email to all the local delegates for the general election to see what their thoughts are on this matter but am not confident of any positive feedback. But like you say TT better to have tried.

Richy

[grey duster]

Good luck with your emails.With the exception of Elin Jones i have been lucky to get an "automated response".Better to have tried...

[Teifi-Terrorist]

Totally with you on this Richy, and the report I wrote basically culminates with these facts and figures i.e. the value of these fish if allowed to reproduce and then reproduce again in future years. I won't go into too much detail, but the sea trout fishery from a tourism perspective on the River Teifi alone was estimated to be worth £1 million in 1998. That's a huge boost for rural communities. Compare that with the circa £30k a year made from fish sales...

Nowadays the £1 million figure would be lower due to declining fishing stocks; this is largely visualised through individual club membership and turnover, which I have done the figures on. Anyway, it is all part of the report that has been submitted to the powers above - let's see what comes of it all.

TT.