Lets stop the CORACLES

[Highwater]

How can we stop the corracles on our rivers? We all need to get together politically against them, the coracle season starts on march 1st whilst fishing doesnt start until 1st april, how is that even possible, reports are that there was a 12lb sea trout caught on the towy on monday night, how crucial was this large specimen to the gene pool, us anglers for conservation have max allowed size to keep for the table, which on the teifi is 20 inches, approx 3 1/2 lbs and the coracles have a minimum size and can kill any size fish and any number, absaloutley ridicilous given the condition of fish stocks today

[fiskeking]

perhaps i should apply for a coracle licence!!

In the crazy world of fishing that is amazing! I thought they had a small season to practice ancient fishing practices. Our clubs on this river have tried to put in all sorts of conservation measures and the nets just keep taking fish!? And I am sure they pay a license fee, but what? Traditional or not,its got to stop. Nearly every fish I caught last year had net marks. Its just not acceptable these days!

[jones]

I think they have as much right to fish the Teifi or Towy as we have, one could argue that they probably have been doing it for far longer than us with rod and line. If we want to reverse our rivers fortunes, it's probably best to involve all interested parties and tackle the real issues rather than continually blaming and alienating one another, we should all have a common goal of a sustainable fishery.

[phl]

I think they have as much right to fish the Teifi or Towy as we have, one could argue that they probably have been doing it for far longer than us with rod and line. If we want to reverse our rivers fortunes, it's probably best to involve all interested parties and tackle the real issues rather than continually blaming and alienating one another, we should all have a common goal of a sustainable fishery.

I hesitate to get involved in this debate, as I'm not a Teifi local, although I have fished it as a visitor. Even so, as I general point, I think I agree with the above. We should recognise that most of the public have little interest in fishing, and won't be very concerned at our complaints. Coracles, however, are part of the local tradition (and good for tourism), so if the coracle fishers complain that failing fish runs are killing their ancient practices, then that will create attention. I think anglers should make common cause with them, and with all others who have an interest in the river.

Paul

[Samwise]

Teifi coracles start on 1st April.

[Teifi-Terrorist]

I think they have as much right to fish the Teifi or Towy as we have, one could argue that they probably have been doing it for far longer than us with rod and line. If we want to reverse our rivers fortunes, it's probably best to involve all interested parties and tackle the real issues rather than continually blaming and alienating one another, we should all have a common goal of a sustainable fishery.

I find it really difficult to digest anyone that fishes the Teifi has this perspective. Taking salmon out of the equation, the damage these nets do to the river make them one of the biggest if not the biggest reason for a continual decline in our sea trout fishery. They took over two metric tonnes of sea trout out of the fishery in the 2010 season alone, yet we should not blame or alienate them?! Seriously? And do you really see them coming to the table to help fight pollution etc. if you do then you are being really naïve, Ian. After all, they are doing it for profit, not because they care about our river. They continually rape and exploit our fishery on an annual basis with zero quotas in place to stop them from doing so. Yet as a rod and line fishery our catch and release rates and voluntary limitations increase annually.

We should all have a common goal, yes. But you are comparing two very different goals or attitudes of why we fish the river in the first place.

TT.

[Wye me?]

Money talks

I don't know the ins and outs of Coracle fishing rights but IF they have to be licensed then perhaps they could be bought out?
Commercial fishing, nets/traps have been removed from other rivers in this way with even a small number of historical, several generations, nets-men being permitted to continue to 'soft-net' Salmon for measuring, weighing then releasing; being compensated for loss of income pro-rata by recorded weight.
Would this work in Wales?

[jones]

I find it really difficult to digest anyone that fishes the Teifi has this perspective. Taking salmon out of the equation, the damage these nets do to the river make them one of the biggest if not the biggest reason for a continual decline in our sea trout fishery. They took over two metric tonnes of sea trout out of the fishery in the 2010 season alone, yet we should not blame or alienate them?! Seriously? And do you really see them coming to the table to help fight pollution etc. if you do then you are being really naïve, Ian. After all, they are doing it for profit, not because they care about our river. They continually rape and exploit our fishery on an annual basis with zero quotas in place to stop them from doing so. Yet as a rod and line fishery our catch and release rates and voluntary limitations increase annually.

We should all have a common goal, yes. But you are comparing two very different goals or attitudes of why we fish the river in the first place.

TT.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...903_b1f168.pdf

It's another very emotive subject, but let's have some real stats. In 2010 it was 668 kg of sewin not 2 ton (page 22).

[jones]

In addition, in 2010 rods retained over 650 sewin and more than 500 salmon. Hardly the moral high ground.

[Highwater]

I totally agree with TT on this one, yes i can see your point that there are many salmon and sea trout caught by rod and line but also which is more important is the percentage of returns by anglers, there isnt even a returns percentage for the nets, secondly although in 2010 alone there was 36,161 fishing licences bought, that in itself is amassive revenue to help our rivers etc, but "only" 326 net licences the number of salmon caught by over 30,000 anglers was 24,896 of which 14,691 were relaesed followed by the nets caught 22,615 with 0% returned, how is that justifiable, lets not shoot the anglers who put time, passion, care and money into trying to preserve the fish stocks, sea trout numbers caught by rod and line similar story are 37,543 and released 26,010 and as for the nets 60,218 with 0% returns, common sense prevails. Its a different era now the stocks cant handle netting numbers no matter how traditional it may be

[mintylad]

If 30, 000 anglers decided not to buy a licence where would it leave the EA? Not once last season did I see a bailiff so where does our money go. What would it cost them to prosecute thousands of anglers. I understand that cuts have been made but I would imagine that they do not tally up with the reduction of licences being purchased. The EA stipulate as part of the licence a return must be filed what are the repercussions of failure to comply? A United front is what is required maybe we should march to downing street to highlight our plight. If the numbers that have been quoted are correct then surely common sense should prevail and at the very least give the coracles a quota in line with sustainability.
I would imagine that it has already been done before but can all clubs on the river get together and organise a strategy to get our voices heard and our real concerns about the nil return of coracle caught fish.

Richy.

[Teifi-Terrorist]

In addition, in 2010 rods retained over 650 sewin and more than 500 salmon. Hardly the moral high ground.

Thankfully Ian I have done enough research for us all on this one and I very much see this a case of needing to educate, as I certainly had to educate myself on this to truly understand the overall picture of what these numbers mean.

In 2010 the nets took 1,017 (declared) sea trout from the Teifi averaging 3.8lbs - anyone that fishes the Teifi will understand what an amazing average that is for the river. Of course, not a single one of these fish would have been released. The issue being that ALL the fish they caught and killed would be sexually mature, with two thirds if not three quarters of them being female fish carrying some 700 eggs per lb. What should also be noted here is the multi spawning nature of the sea trout, which is why they cannot be viewed in the 'snapshot' that a salmon can. A sea trout may spawn seven, eight times or more in its lifetime. As such, not only does this extraction affect that given season, it also has a substantial knock on affect thereafter.

Over the same year the rod and line fishery caught 2,186, of which 1,512 were released and 674 taken with an average of 1.5 lbs. This means that virtually all the fish taken by the rod and line fishery were sexually immature, 0SW fish. Also, look at the cumulative weights; 1,011 lbs vs 3,859!

It is also worth noting what clubs such as Llandysul Angling have put in place over the last few years to secure those 1SW+ fish that do make it past the nets; all fish above 50cm to be released being a prime example. Also, take a look at the river as a whole; we are catching less fish but putting more back - in 1993 anglers were releasing less than 10% of their catch, by 2002 this was 43% and by 2013 it was 73%. Yes Ian, very much a moral high ground and very much a climate of change on the river. I just wish that all clubs would come together in some common thinking, but since that cannot happen (and yes I have tried) then what chance have we really got of getting the nets to collaborate with us? After all, we are trying to increase runs to secure the future of the species for future generations, where the nets would be looking to increase the runs for future exploitation and profit - if you think otherwise then I truly have lost hope.

Anyway, hope that gives some insight into the figures. Again, I produced a huge report on this that was part read out in the WG and is being handled by the Environment Minister to try and at least get a quota system in place or to stop only the sexually mature fish from being targeted.

TT.

[Teifi-Terrorist]

I would imagine that it has already been done before but can all clubs on the river get together and organise a strategy to get our voices heard and our real concerns about the nil return of coracle caught fish.

Richy.

Has been tried Richy, but unfortunately you have the likes of the TTA that has an active (if not the most active) coracle licence holder acting on their committee! I know, I know...

TT.

[Teifi-Terrorist]

lets not shoot the anglers who put time, passion, care and money into trying to preserve the fish stocks, sea

Exactly, Highwater. That is the important factor. Yes, we do what we do to try and preserve our sport but also because we care about the species on a deeper level i.e. beyond exploitation and profit. I can think of nothing worse than passing the keys to the river on to the next generation with a river devoid of life.

TT.

[phl]

In 2010 the nets took 1,008 sea trout from the Teifi averaging 4.4lbs -
TT.

Where does this figure come from, TT? The EA report for 2010 confirms the catch of 1008, but gives a total weight of 688 Kg, which equates to an average weight more like 1.5 lbs. Have I missed something?

Paul